Priten: Welcome to Margin of Thought, where we make space for the questions that matter.
I'm your host, Priten, and together we'll explore questions that help us preserve what matters while navigating what's coming.
Priten Shah: today I'm speaking with no Poso, who has taught high school Spanish and French for nearly two decades, and now heads the foreign language and classical department at her school.
Novel's perspective is particularly valuable because foreign language classrooms are on the front lines of the AI revolution.
Translation tools are everywhere.
Students can generate seemingly perfect essays in seconds.
And the fundamental question, why learn a language when AI can translate is impossible to avoid.
But rather than fighting the technology, Noel has done something else.
She's created a classroom culture of honesty and experimentation where students openly discuss their AI use, explore its biases together, and learn to see technology as a tool for human connection.
Let's hear from her.
Noelia Pozo: my name's Noelia Pozo.
I've been teaching high school, Spanish and French for now, 18 years, going on 19.
I am the head of our Lang Foreign Language and classical department.
I'm also co-director of our new program.
We started last year in our school called the Global Scholars Program.
Lately kind of just taking the reins myself and trying to bring a little more AI literacy into our school, trying to set up better guidelines.
obviously to be more preventative of different things, et cetera, any issues with parents, students, somewhere down the line.
So I'm trying to be a little more proactive and prepared than surprised and caught off guard.
Priten Shah: Very cool.
I kind of want to dive right into the foreign language component of this, just because I think that's a, that's a unique perspective and one that I, one that I want to talk a little bit about.
I'd love for you to just tell me like, what, what has your classroom looked like?
what has changed in the last.
almost two decades that you've been teaching, um, but especially in the last few years, um, in a foreign language classroom.
Noelia Pozo: So the technology has definitely shifted.
I started with a blackboard and just writing stuff up and just seeing the shift as having simple technologies such as PowerPoint or Google Slides, kind of come into the mix a little bit.
and then using.
Even YouTube to educate and then just seeing how apps have developed and using that with the kids, um, making it more of a game than making it like some drudgery for them because language is not for everybody.
Um, So you try to find the different things that can make it interesting and have kids respect it at the very least, even if they never love it as much as I do.
And then even now with, AI being integrated into certain apps or even using certain platforms to help with, helping kids and tutor them.
I've used it personally with in my classroom and one-on-one with students, showing them how to prompt correctly, not just using it as a Google search.
So just seeing how kids are perceiving it now.
They still don't have a great love for it.
They're still trying to find the easy way out.
but I'm finding especially now with using certain AI tools.
Kids are using it more to help them study and prepare than they are trying to get the quick answer and move on.
Even though they do still show signs of using it in that way, especially with certain homework assignments, it's made me rethink how I give assignments also to them so that they're not just typing something in and then putting it in right away.
but it's been quite an evolution in almost.
20 years just going from pen to paper using a textbook, um, using textbooks online, and now just using all these other platforms and apps that can kind of reinforce what's being done in the classroom.
Priten Shah: Yeah.
So I'm fascinated to hear more about getting students to respect, putting in the effort to learn a foreign
Mm-hmm.
because obviously, you're clearly figuring out how to effectively use it for pedagogical purposes.
and that I think that that's the direction that I'm hoping we can all move the narrative in.
But of course, a large part of people's concerns are still just like, you know, getting students to actually care enough to not use it for, shortcuts.
that takes the respect of the discipline, right?
Like it takes they need to buy into the idea that learning the language is important.
So I'm, I'm curious how do you, how do you communicate that to your students?
Noelia Pozo: Well, in part, showing them that importance is just showing them like, look at the world around you.
What you hear, what do you eat?
pointing out to them like, you guys already speak Spanish.
You just don't realize you're speaking Spanish because there's certain words within the English language that are part of that, or even French language, like when I say to them, so in lieu of you guys doing this.
And I remember one kid asking me what's in lieu?
And I said, think about it.
Put your French accent, accent into it.
It was like, And they were like, wait, we use that all the time.
And, and I said, it's used all the time in English.
It's a French term.
So just showing them like, you guys use it, you just don't realize you're using it.
That's number one.
And then number two, just also with the food they eat.
As much as, I don't think Chipotle is real Mexican food, I'm like, think of the different titles that are there.
, So they're more respectful, like, okay, it does surround us, it is around us.
trying to help 'em also see like you can use a foreign language in any field of study, . So I'm going into business.
I'm like, okay.
so if you go into business, , like if you're able to communicate in a foreign language, you'll be able to establish a certain rapport and relationship because you're able to communicate and then say your client or future client's, language.
Thus showing respect for a culture 'cause language is involved with the culture as well.
you know, even some of them, my even native speakers or heritage speakers, you know, they challenge me like, that's not how you say it.
I'm like, well, that's one way of saying it.
And so it becomes like a nice conversation.
Sometimes I do let my students kind of They take me off on tangents, but it's the ones I love the best because it shows them, you could see they start get, the light bulb is going off.
Like, I want to hear this, I wanna understand this because I do see it all the time, but I never ask the question.
and even now,, AI has brought up the conversation.
They'll, some kids like, what in the world does that word mean?
And we go into that conversation of, well that's probably a very old Spanish word.
It's probably favoring Spanish from Spain.
Or we've seen it in French where it goes into old French, and then they're like, but why is it always giving that sort of response?
So that goes into the bias of even language, even in English.
They'll see it like, who uses that?
Right?
So why are you going to put it in there if you're not gonna use it?
they start to understand like, language is very different.
It's not just something that's perfect or pure and they start to like, okay, I see how this can help me down the line.
You still have the few that are just, no, I'll never use it.
But they're the ones who come back to me and say, I wish I listened to you.
So even years later, even though they didn't value it, then I'm glad they value it in their future.
Priten Shah: Yeah.
those tangents I think are the best parts of classroom moments.
And I think why I don't think AI and robots will ever replace teachers because those tangents are only something that us humans will entertain.
tell me a little bit about When you think about having these conversations with your students, you know, five years ago versus this fall, and you think
about how powerful the technology has gotten, um, where we could put headphones in and foreign languages could be translated to us and, vice versa.
how do we navigate those conversations with students when, if they, if they tell you, ai, AI can do all the translating for me, why don't, why should I still learn, x, y, Z language or business or whatever?
Noelia Pozo: Yeah, so it's funny, one of my kids did actually ask that.
I'm like, okay, so you're letting a robot do your work for you.
You're not setting up a relationship.
There's no, connection that there's no human connection 'cause you're letting something else do it for you.
So thus you probably have the other human on the other end who is like, okay, so I have to talk to a machine.
I can't really talk to you.
How do I know if I'm gonna trust you?
How do I know what you're really thinking?
you know, I can't relay your emotion or try to read you because you're putting everything in a language I don't understand and then I'm getting that relay from a machine.
So.
Making the kids understand at the end of the day, yes, you have all this great technology, but at the end you have to create human connections, right?
Whether they're personal human connections, whether they're professional human connections, that human connection is probably the most important thing, which is why it also breaks my heart to see how.
the smartphone in itself, as much as it's great, is also a breaking factor in those human connections because clearly kids today are addicted.
I'm the teacher who collects their phones.
I have a phone called the telephone Hotel and I said, put in the hotel it needs to sleep.
And they hate it.
but you could see like the itchiness, all the addict signs because the moment that bell rings and they're switching to another class, they're running to get their phone and they could forget their notebook, but they won't forget their phone.
You know, things like that.
Technology as much as it's a very great tool and a helpful one, we have to be careful with it in that it is breaking certain human connections that, especially kids
today, especially when they start to go into the workforce and whatnot, if they can't socialize or be able to network well, it's going to hurt them down the line.
And Unfortunately they're relying, can I just put this through a text to be able to have that conversation when not everything can be done through a text,
Priten Shah: and I think this, that's the value of these conversations with the students is helping them see that it's not always just about like, can this be done by a machine?
It is about what does doing it by a machine mean for your relationship with other humans?
And I think that.
Foreign language to me is a great place to have this conversation because in some ways it is one of the easiest places to use AI to kind of just do the work, especially comparatively.
but it's also I think, one of the most valuable places that you get benefit from doing it yourself.
to me, I think it's a great discussion point.
I'm glad that your students are having that experience of talking that through, because I think, I think that that hopefully is creating those light bulb moments that you're talking about, which sounds like it is.
Yeah.
Noelia Pozo: Trust me.
I hope so too sometimes, because.
At the end of the day, and I think it's just human nature.
We want the easy way out I mean we were all kids, one who tried to cheat 'cause we didn't study properly, or we were just being lazy about it.
I mean, I have to have these conversations with them where if I were to ask them a simple reflection question, you know, write this for me in French.
You know, what did you do today?
They don't wanna sit there and say very simple five sentences, they'll go into the bot.
And I'm like, but why are you using that?
Well, I'm trying to get it to help me.
I'm like, it's doing it for you.
I need you to write it first before you use it.
Because the, the cognitive offloading is ridiculous on what some of the, like, they don't even wanna think.
I'm like, you can't ask this to reflect on something, on your feelings.
So why are you, why are we going there?
Well, I don't wanna sound dumb.
And I'm like, but it's a reflection.
It's okay.
You're not gonna sound dumb.
You're giving your ideas, you're expressing yourself.
And that's the other part of they're losing this great way of trying.
Like we were taught to try to express yourself.
What are you feeling?
What are your thoughts?
Do you like it?
You don't like it?
And it's kind of hindering them and being able to just express themselves and create their own thought or opinions.
I mean, even how social media is what they look at, I'm like, okay, but did you do a deeper dive?
Is that real or is that just someone opinion?
And it's being posted as fact, you know, so you can't just take everything for what you're seeing as truth anymore, unfortunately, you know, we have to do these deeper dives.
We have to do our research, and they're just stuck on whatever TikTok is saying and then they call it a day.
And I, I've asked them, I was like, oh, where did you hear that from?
Oh, I heard it on Snapchat.
And I'm like.
Okay.
Can I get a more meaningful credit of what you are saying here, because Snapchat is not my go-to
for a good resource
Priten Shah: Yeah.
what's striking to me is how many digital literacy conversations you're having, um, in your classroom, right?
Like you're helping them navigate, you know, the healthy usage of ai.
fake news and credibility.
just healthy habits with technology in general.
I think for a lot of folks that that feels overwhelming.
Like the amount of, coaching that we have to do for students to understand what role technology plays.
I think for some educators, A feels, overwhelming.
and B feels like it's not part of their, curricula.
you're teaching a, a language, like there's so much else for you to cover in a class period.
and the fact that you're, you know, finding ways to integrate those conversations , is, it's inspiring.
how did you, is this natural for you?
like, what helped motivate you to integrate so much of that conversation and not just say, okay, we're gonna lock your phones up and then not even talk about them.
Noelia Pozo: Right.
Part of it, I think is just 'cause how the kids even their own questioning.
I had to do a placement exam recently, for incoming freshmen.
And a kid just randomly asked me, do you guys really collect the phones?
Are you gonna do that?
'cause the new law passed.
And I'm like, well, at least he knows there's a law that was passed.
But it doesn't affect us 'cause we're, private school.
So it, we don't have to collect the phones if we don't want to.
However, it is asked of us as teachers, please collect their phone.
So fine.
I said, well, if you have me, I will be collecting your phone.
But why?
I don't understand.
I'm like, trust me, 40 minutes, you'll survive.
You won't die.
And the kid's trying to give me arguments.
But what if my mom needs to get ahold of me?
I'm pretty sure if it's an emergency, she would be calling the school or you know, whatever.
She should know that you're in school and you're in class.
They're trying to find every excuse, you know, but letting them know like, you'll survive if you don't have that.
Generations before you didn't have this.
Right.
I remember having to still read a map on how to get to where I needed to go.
I struggled with it, but it was what it was.
it also was just.
Seeing, like why am I going to fight them on something they're gonna look at?
So I think I had mentioned this and it kind of backs up into this whole, how I started having these conversation with the kids is.
I guess because I established a rapport of my kids.
I knew a kid cheated really badly 'cause he never tried in Spanish.
Barely could put two words together.
And then when I asked for their final exam, write a, write a paragraph, or write an essay.
Which was two paragraphs I was asking, so it's not even a proper essay.
He wrote a beautiful essay in perfect Spanish, referring to Chichen and the pyramids.
I'm like, we never talked about any of this.
This is fabulous.
So when I confronted him, I was like, Hey, you know, I should, you know, recommend you for AP Spanish.
He was like, I don't wanna go there.
I'm like, but you wrote such a beautiful essay.
Where was this all year?
He's like, you're accusing me of something.
He's like, I am, but I want you to prove me wrong.
I just need you to answer these questions and we'll call it a day.
If you answer them, fine, then we'll move on from this, and I'm sorry, for ever thinking you cheated and he refused to do it.
Then he admitted to it a day later and he said he used chat GPT, which in my mind I was like, how the hell did he do that?
If we are collecting phones for
Yeah.
this is a part where colleagues are sometimes not fair to their other colleagues.
So that was that situation.
But instead of me getting angry at this kid, I was like, you know what?
Thank you for this kid.
'cause it started me doing research and looking things up.
I'm like, this is in our lives whether we like it or not.
So that's what brought me to you guys.
And then I said, you know what?
Let me start to ease this in.
I said, I don't need to reinvent the wheel, but I should start introducing to the kids, Hey, let's start using this together.
Here's what you can do on your own.
the kids would ask me, you are okay with that?
I'm like, I'm okay as long as you're honest with me.
And they would be very upfront and at the time, especially for certain project based things we were doing.
I said, you guys can use ChatGPT
That's when I introduced them to Claude also as another option.
We introduced them to Perplexities to help them with research and live sites, and they loved it.
And I said, whatever you do, all I ask is that you, tell me the engine you use and give me your, that's
They did that.
I got work cited pages, and at the very bottom they did all that.
I checked, I was like, okay, they're being upfront, they're not hiding behind it or anything like that.
And then, kids would ask questions, they'd show me like, I did this, but it's, it's kind of weird.
I don't know if this, can I use this?
they would show me their screens of whether it was chat, GPT or Claude or copilot.
So I was like, all right, they're open about this.
They're not hiding behind it.
They realize I have this open conversation.
And this past year we got even deeper with it because now that we know you can do videos with ai, the kids started to get, we said, can we use them?
Like, yeah, let's use it together.
Let's prompt this, and we did one class lesson of just trying to prep Their projects.
And one kid said, but nobody looks like me.
And that's when we got into the conversation of AI bias.
It's like, so this is where you need to prompt it a little better so that it understands, people who are creating this have to work with because, you know, yeah, you're gonna, I've asked them the question, like, just think about it this way.
If I say, teacher, what's the first thing that pops into your head?
And a lot of the kids said, an old woman.
And I'm like, okay, thanks guys.
You know?
Right, but we, we did all these, we even did a baseball player.
It was like, what comes to your mind when you think baseball player, a Hispanic guy, beard, dark skin?
I'm like, okay, do you wanna try this with one of the platforms?
Like, yeah, let's put it, it's gonna give us that.
It didn't give them that.
They were like, wow, the guy's still coming out white.
So this just goes to show you guys, it's going to lean towards what we ourselves think too sometimes.
'cause that's just how society has built us, But if you want something to look like you, you're going to have to have that conversation with the bot and one kid said to me, can I give it my picture and then just make it age me.
I'm like I said, you could, but keep in mind for privacy issues, I wouldn't do that because then your face is out there anyone can use it.
So I would be careful when using your own images.
it, it has, The conversations have developed through time.
Even the kids are asking me questions like.
But how can I prompt it on my own?
And we do what are called the talk think alouds.
So this past couple of times, like, I'm like, let's do a prompt together.
And I, I type it up.
I'm like, what do you think of what I just wrote?
I'm like, well, can we include this?
And I said, sure.
And can we include that?
because we were reviewing for their final and they getting involved in how to also prompt it correctly to try to get their result.
Was very helpful and them asking questions.
it also helped me to make sure that they knew if the output was correct, because that was another thing we had conversations about because couple kids spotted it, like, I don't think this is right.
And I'm like, well, what makes you say that the output's not right?
And it's like, well, you said, and we've discussed this.
I'm like, you're right.
That is wrong.
they say, so this is wrong.
And I'm like, well guys, it's not a hundred percent.
Remember this is taking information from the internet, but then if it gets mixed up or does all that, understand that the result may not be what you're looking for.
So be be careful using it for other classes, right?
So whatever it gives you, read through it, still look through it, see if the information is correct.
Once you put it in a paper or once you put it in your answer, once you use it for anything you're saying and you're taking responsibility for that information, and then if it's wrong, you can get in trouble.
But, you know, so it's, it's led into nice conversations.
The kids are like, wow, this is interesting.
Oddly enough, the kids I've dealt with are very apprehensive about using it, you know, for different reasons.
The ones that aren't afraid to use it clearly are just using it for the wrong reasons at the end of the day.
but it's nice to see those two spectrums.
'cause you can make the kid who's not scared to use it, a little aware of what he's doing and should take some caution.
And the kid who's too cautionary, like, it's okay, I like that you have that caution.
So that's gonna help you, use this for good not for bad
Priten Shah: yeah, there, there are so many good moments you just mentioned, um, in terms of like building that digital literacy for the students, which is.
very valuable for them.
Um, But also I'm sure your, your peers are benefiting from it the way you're talking about it.
and helping them kind of see the students even see the big picture so that it carries forward not just, you know, in
Noelia Pozo: right?
Priten Shah: but in, in other classes.
Noelia Pozo: I
For my colleagues.
You know, that's a different story.
I mean, some of them are great about it.
They're very open-minded.
They're willing to try, they're intimidated by it I could talk for only my department 'cause I've coached them.
I said, look, you don't have to use.
The bigger platforms.
You don't need to use Notebook if you don't want to.
Even though I like Notebook in that it creates a podcast for them.
So I used it for one lesson, one time.
It's like, okay guys, just listen to that.
And they came back and some of them were able to relay what I was gonna go over.
I'm like, okay, this is a good tool just for them to hear a lesson beforehand, before I go into it.
Um, but I say you don't have to use all these big platforms.
Napkin Notebook, Claude, or Chat, GPT.
so I started to introduce them to like school AI, Conmingo, which is not the best for foreign language I found.
I said, why don't you guys just use one of these platforms with the kids just so that you get used to prompting just so you get used to this.
They're not my favorite platforms, but if you're talking about people who are cautionary or beginners, like it's a good, those are good tools for them to just get started with and they liked it, doing it with the kids.
So it's just seeing the real time, especially with school ai, like the real time work that they're doing.
And I was like, okay, so start there.
Other teachers, not so much.
they don't want it.
They're like, they're just gonna use it as a crutch.
I'm like, but you're forcing them to use it as a crutch.
I do have one colleague of mine, we all sat down in a meeting and he was just very adamant about, it's almost like he wants to catch these kids, which I am like, you're already ruining your relationship with your students, so you're already distrusting them.
Because you think they're using it, but you have no proof and then they don't trust you 'cause you're jumping on relying because you already think that they're using it.
So there's that issue.
I remember someone saying to him, well, maybe you wanna rethink how you do your assignments.
And you could see it was just like you were asking him to give up his firstborn child.
that he was like, well, according to, 'cause we use turn it in for the plagiarism component.
But I know there's the AI detector now.
And he is like, well, according to the website it says it picks it up at least 20% and it's never wrong, or something like that.
And I showed him something and I said.
AI don't, detectors don't work and turn it in is the worst one.
Look at this data.
And he just didn't care.
He is like, the website says it, this is gonna be a lawsuit waiting to happen because all you need is the well-informed parent.
And then he comes and attacks him.
And in my mind I'm just like, you are the teacher that refuses to change.
And this is where, yes, teachers won't get replaced by ai, but you will get replaced by the teacher who is using ai.
if you're adamant about not using it, and I think he does use it, but for his own uses, and that's where I'm just like, don't be a hypocrite if you're using it.
they should be using it.
And that's how I approached it.
Like, I'm going to tell the kids, I did tell my seniors this year, I'm like, guys, I'm gonna be using AI to help grade your papers.
I'm, I, I made that full disclosure with them.
'cause I just wanted to see for myself.
even then, just seeing how it graded, I wasn't a hundred percent in agreement with the grading Majority of the students, like, I don't agree with how this graded it.
Some of them passed them when I'm like, no, this was badly written, this is wrong information.
you know, so I'm like, I would give 'em a lower grade.
So it was just even for me, because.
One kid's like, oh, 'cause you just don't wanna take this time.
It's like, no, I'm gonna read it.
And I even showed them, I pulled them up individually and he's like, here's what AI said I should give you.
What did I give you?
And he was like, you passed me.
I'm like, yeah, 'cause I don't agree with what you wrote.
One
yeah.
you know, I showed it and I was like, but I do agree with what AI said.
I gave him a little, slightly higher grade and I, we went through it and he was just like.
He admitted to me, so I used ai.
I thought I would get a higher grade.
He actually admitted that he had the paper written by it, and I'm like, okay, thank you for your honesty.
I gave him another shot.
I was like, okay, since you were honest with me, I'll give you another shot, but you have to come here and hand write that paper now.
He hated the whole experience.
But, it was like a nice moment.
Like they realized, okay, I got honest.
She gave me a chance, them seeing like, okay, if she's using it, she's giving us the opportunity to use it.
Everybody is open about it.
Other teachers not so much.
So that's one thing that does bother me about that whole, situation.
And there are colleagues who love it.
They use it with the kids.
They have, the kids use it, they're using it themselves.
So it's kind of like, a 50 50 thing, Yeah.
Priten Shah: Yeah.
Wow.
you've given me a lot to think about content, so I really appreciate it.
Noelia Pozo: Alright,
Priten Shah: you so
much.
Noelia Pozo: You.
All right.
Take care.
Priten Shah: You too.
Bye-Bye.
I appreciated that conversation with Noella.
What stands out in Noel's approach is her refusal to operate from a position of distrust by opening up conversations about AI use and using those tools alongside her students.
She's created a classroom where honesty is possible.
She believes that the question isn't whether to engage with these tools, but how to do so in a way that preserves what matters most.
Human connection, critical thinking, and genuine learning.
Stay with us as we continue exploring these questions and for more on how to preserve what matters pre-order my book Ethical Ed [email protected].
Priten: Thanks for listening to Margin of Thought.
If this episode gave you something to think about, subscribe, rate, and review us.
Also, share it with someone who might be asking similar questions.
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Until next time, keep making space for the questions that matter.